solder
Got Socomized
Posts: 13
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Post by solder on Mar 27, 2006 23:17:54 GMT -5
During a discussion with Battosai on the DS server, he mentioned how love was justification for the existence of a benevolent being. Yet, he had chemistry homework to do, so we did not get much further than that initial statement. Now, I must ask, what exactly is love?
Baby, don't hurt me. Don't hurt me No more.
Having been inspired by a recent National Geographic article, I claim that love is nothing more than a chemical thingytail (stupid censor) that influences how we perceive the world. I am eager to hear what Battosai and everyone else thinks on this specific point as well as other reasons for believing in God.
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Post by milk on Mar 27, 2006 23:34:32 GMT -5
Hold on there Johnny Bravo, start speaking love and using words with more than 5 letters and people might get confused. No need to sound so sophisticated. < big word, ignore it.
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solder
Got Socomized
Posts: 13
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Post by solder on Mar 27, 2006 23:46:11 GMT -5
Okay, I'll berry-ify it later.
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Mar 28, 2006 0:04:37 GMT -5
Heh. This is way more important than chem. I can take another break to respond. Okay...I'll lay it out for you... The questions "why do I believe in God?" and "What is love?" are almost the same question. The short story is that (the Bible says this in who-knows-how-many-places) God is love. The long story is, well, four Gospels and several letters long. But the medium story for me is this... The word "love" in the english language is undefinable. But in the Greek translation of the Bible, I believe there were three different words for love, with different meanings: Eros, Phileo, and Agape. 1. Eros is easy. That's romantic love. It most certainly makes use of chemical messages in the body. Biological attraction. It's still a beautiful thing that God gave us, but yeah, it's chemicals. Maybe there's something more to it, I don't know. I'm only in Physio1 in college. But whatev. That's Eros. 2. Phileo is "emotional love". Do you love your mom and dad? Do you love your siblings, your friends? ...your clan leader? That's phileo. Emotion and reason are higher functions in the human brain, and in a good friendship these both come together. You care for the other person. You wish well for them, you want to spend time with them, you admire them, and/or a whole bunch of other positive feelings towards them. This is good. 3. Now for Agape...uh, I guess best described as "godly love". I don't understand fully what this is. I don't think any human can understand it. It's something like complete and untarnished joy at the glory of what God has created in the human spirit. Complete putting-others-before-you. Infinite willingness to forgive the failures, to build up and to praise. But those are just the symptomes of that kind of love, not the love itself. Yeah, don't think anyone can fully understand it, though many could probably explain it way better than me. Anyways, no human can understand this love in this life, much less be capable of it. One exception. Jesus, while being fully human, also had that advatage that comes with being fully God. And so, driven by Love-type-3, He came down to offer us that infinite forgiveness. I could go on for hours about this, but I said medium story. So, moving on to why I believe this... ...because, though I cannot understand godly love, I see it working in people around me. At church, they're like a family striving to always get closer to each other and God, always forgiving, always picking themselves up after they fall. Going on a mission trip, I felt God at work with me and my team members. God has, on occaision, spoken to me in various ways (No, I haven't heard a deep voice. Though that would be cool!). Ultimately, I have seen enough of God in myself and other people that my belief in Him is no longer a choice. I can't not believe in Him, any more than I could try to not believe in wind. But I can't prove to you that I'm not lying. And I can't prove to you that the Muslim/Jewish/whatever person telling you a different story is wrong. But, if you look for God, you'll find Him. Ask God to show himself to you, and He will. Personally, I would say the best place to look is in the New Testament. But, if you honestly look for Him, He will show himself. (if you do, be persistent...He doesn't always deliver miracles on demand ) Well, yeah, that's it for now. Does that make any sense to you, solder?
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Post by milk on Mar 28, 2006 0:19:54 GMT -5
In my most recent years, i have learned some greek myself and understand the pronounciation quite well!
Agape is close to the word " Sa'gapo"
Simplified to english lettering, it means " I love you " in greek.
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Post by :[DS]: Ic[e]bolt on Mar 28, 2006 1:00:07 GMT -5
Love smells funny.
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Post by [Q4]Fry on Mar 28, 2006 1:10:11 GMT -5
Ask the questions. Don't be afraid to ask Batto, me, or anyone else what they believe and why. Questions asked for answers bring out truth. And when you know the truth, it (dare I say it?) will set you free.
I'm a Christian, and I won't pretend I was always solidly so. I've been pretty shaky at times, but those times I asked the questions and found the answers.
-Fry-
EDIT: It has come to my attention (thank you Batto) that I didn't actually answer either of the questions.
Love may (and likely does) have connection to chemical phenomena, but I think that love is an attachment that gives us a (counter-evolutionary) ability to self-sacrifice for the benefit of someone or some group. Love is saying that you will relinquish the desire to look out for number one in order that someone else gets more than they deserve*. I'm trying to pull this all out without any "Christianese," and I don't quite know how I'm doing...
I believe in God not only because of the philosophical repercussions of His absence, but also because of personal experience. For the philosophical argument read Jean-Paul Sartre, an incrediblely bright man who was not a theist, and because of the resultant conclusions he came to, a rather unhappy one, too. He drew the logical conclusion that if there is no God, there can be no behavioural standards, and no actual connection between bodily existence and consciousness. Beginning with the premise of no God, the logical end is an existentialist hell-on-earth. Bear in mind, that this is not a proof of God's existence. I can give philosophical arguments to that effect, as well, but they would be arguments of the head, and none of them from the heart. If that's what you're after, I recommend St. Thomas Aquinas. I would be perfectly happy to reach a rational conclusion of "God exists" and end there, purely on the basis of philosophical debate, but the existence of God, my beliefs about Him, and experience of Him require more than passing acknowledgement. Describing fulfillment is rather difficult, I'm afraid. A sense of completeness, perhaps? Something that I never had in dating, alcohol, smoking, jacking off (yeah, I've done it), or any of the other things I've tried.
*in a strictly dispassionate, winner-take-all, I-have-and-you-don't sense
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Post by :[DS]: A MyStiCaL Fly on Mar 28, 2006 1:14:24 GMT -5
Way to dumb down the thread ice. Interesting post battosai, always good for people to express their opinons even if not everyone believes the same. <3 to me anyway, How can one EVER hope to understand the world with a broader view if they ignore any one view? They cant imo. 1, I dont know if there is a god or not. 2, Love is sure real, and nods to solder about it being a "chemical thingytail". lol.
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Post by :[DS]: Ic[e]bolt on Mar 28, 2006 1:27:08 GMT -5
Just as a reminder, I would like to make sure that this does not become a religious flaming post, or an arguement. I encourage debate, but if it gets out of hand.. well, you know.
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Post by :[DS]: Xavios on Mar 28, 2006 1:36:50 GMT -5
I don't believe in 'God', as you have put it, yet I respect those that do and whoever they believe in. I believe in other things, science one of them, but I don't consider myself an athiest.
But on this point, which I have discussed with friends for long moments, (While waiting for the bus >_> Waiting for the bus always ends up with me drawing something or me and friends discussing philosophy or something), I agree with the claim of the Chemical "Thingytail", as Solder and Fly so delicately put it ;D.
-My input : o! ________________________________
Ps: Baby, don't hurt me. Don't hurt me No more.
I like that song. ;p
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Post by Med on Mar 28, 2006 1:37:17 GMT -5
Listen to... Pusher Man - by Steppenwolf Get your Bible and GOD DAMN! There is no such thing as a true atheist. All atheists believe in some form of creation. In my case, I believe we all originated from small micro-organisms. In "The Damn Bible", calculations state the Earth is 8000 years old. They should ban teaching Dinosaurs, because Dinosaurs say that the Earth is over 8000 years old. And yeah, they don't need to teach Intelligent Design. Just throw a "God-Damn Bible" at everyone to read Genesis from and then teach Evolution. Only Ignorance prevents Science. ABORTION FOREVER!!!!!!
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Post by [Q4]Fry on Mar 28, 2006 1:53:37 GMT -5
Edit to previous.
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Post by Fate|Speed[Y]Ninja on Mar 28, 2006 2:44:47 GMT -5
o yea toking bout tis reminds me of black eyed peas - where is the love its a meaningful song
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:[DS]: Sugarplum
Got Noob Sprayed
I take the "the" out of psychotherapist.
Posts: 107
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Post by :[DS]: Sugarplum on Mar 28, 2006 9:04:37 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a true atheist. All atheists believe in some form of creation. In my case, I believe we all originated from small micro-organisms. Atheists don't believe in divine beings creating the world. Science is not a religion.
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Mar 28, 2006 11:56:24 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a true atheist. All atheists believe in some form of creation. In my case, I believe we all originated from small micro-organisms. Atheists don't believe in divine beings creating the world. Science is not a religion. You are correct. It is not a religion. But it most certainly is a faith. No one can never fully prove that we evolved from micro-organisms. But there is evidence for it, and so atheists can take it on faith that we came from them.
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