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Post by notoriousfro on Nov 11, 2006 13:06:32 GMT -5
... its just taking your logic a bit further.
when can you assign a soul to a cell? thats the question.
and do souls even exist?
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Nov 12, 2006 15:33:11 GMT -5
I think that proving spirits exist depends on proving that God exists, which is a personal journey. But there's a thread for talking about that. And, since I base my morality on my faith in God, my response to any ethics problem will inevitably carry something about spirits, or God, or love, etc.
For now, you could look at my other logical arguement, the one that doesn't assume souls? I put it there cause I remembered you don't really believe in spirits xD
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Post by notoriousfro on Nov 12, 2006 17:46:49 GMT -5
lol Babies vs Embryos... Babies: - can think, see, smell, taste, recognize smells, voices, etc - look like a human - are living, processing, functionable beings Embryos - cannot think, smell, taste, recognize anything (brain doesnt even exist yet) - look like a glob of cells depending on what stage of embryonic development - are living, dont proccess anything, and dont function in any way except take in nutrients and put out waste There you go The differences are huge. Babies are soooooo much different than embryos. here are some pics to show u a harsh comparison Embryo- www.humpath.com/IMG/jpg/embryo_12mm_2.jpgbaby- www.nicoles-funworld.de/windowcolor/Malvorlagen/baby/baby_007.gifisnt he cute? ;D
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Post by Russel on Nov 12, 2006 18:28:23 GMT -5
*vomits* Omg....that disgusting thing is suppose to save millions of lives?
hehe Friggin sweet! Huuuraaa for stem cell research!
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Nov 13, 2006 12:32:31 GMT -5
Babies vs Embryos... Babies: - can think, see, smell, taste, recognize smells, voices, etc - look like a human - are living, processing, functionable beings Embryos - cannot think, smell, taste, recognize anything (brain doesnt even exist yet) - look like a glob of cells depending on what stage of embryonic development - are living, dont proccess anything, and dont function in any way except take in nutrients and put out waste Sooo...blind people aren't humans? Deaf people aren't humans? Mentally retarded people aren't humans? Should we kill them all for their resources, or because of the resources they consume? A person in deep sleep (ie. not REM) isn't thinking, seeing, smelling or tasting, or recognizing anything. But it would be rediculous to try to justify killing him, because he'll be awake and aware in a few hours. For an embryo, same deal, except it takes months instead of hours. Both are living humans from a biological standpoint, and the sleeping person isn't processing anthing more than the embryo is.
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Post by Russel on Nov 13, 2006 14:06:58 GMT -5
yeah but those disabled people can still interact with other people. Embryos can't because they're not even born. Plus with the help of those stem cells we can change all of that. Imagine it batto, Stem cells curing the deaf, the blind, the mute, and even the mentally retarded. This generation can be saved from mostly all disabilities. The cost you ask? A few embyros. Stem cells are the way to go
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Nov 13, 2006 15:59:16 GMT -5
Russel, you're missing my point. I do agree that Stem cells are the way to go. But not killing people to save other people. If the situation arose, would I sacrifice myself to save ten other people? I'd like to think that I would, although I don't know how I'd react if it actually did happen. Right now, in my right mind, I would certainly choose to. Would I kill someone else to save ten other people? No. Would I kill one sleeping person to save a thousand? No. It's up to those people to make that decision. But an embryo cant do that. Who are we to deny someone their whole life, to save part of someone else's?
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Post by notoriousfro on Nov 13, 2006 16:37:00 GMT -5
we aren't denying anyone their life, we are denying the cells right to POSSIBLY mature i cant argue the deaf, blind, wtvr post u made... obvioulsy they are human. cells, however aren't. i hoped the pics could make it perfectly clear someone sleeping IS thinking btw. dreams? they constantly happen. only extreme yoga ppl on moutaintops in budapest can actually not think at all for more than a millisecond. the thing about the embryos sleeping.. once again, sperm will EVENTUALLY turn into a little babeh if they are hott xD and can attract the ladies like mr fro
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Nov 13, 2006 16:57:27 GMT -5
we aren't denying anyone their life, we are denying the cells right to POSSIBLY mature i cant argue the deaf, blind, wtvr post u made... obvioulsy they are human. cells, however aren't. i hoped the pics could make it perfectly clear If you do not believe in souls, then humans are nothing more than cells. someone sleeping IS thinking btw. dreams? they constantly happen. only extreme yoga ppl on moutaintops in budapest can actually not think at all for more than a millisecond. I said deep sleep, not REM. REM, "rapid eye movement" is the scientific name for the stage of sleep where we dream. Deep sleep is when we do not dream, and takes place between cycles of REM. We do not constantly dream. once again, sperm will EVENTUALLY turn into a little babeh if they are hott xD and can attract the ladies like mr fro lol. Survival of the fastest!
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Post by notoriousfro on Nov 14, 2006 15:16:09 GMT -5
humans are cells. but together, they make a human. get it? humans are more deveoped mentally compared to other animals... but essentially we are the same as your pet fish.
our minds are constantly working, how bout that... maybe not dreaming, but working idk anything about dreams... but killing a sleeping guy vs killing an emrbyo is a dumb argument
i put ten bucks on the one with a big tail
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Nov 14, 2006 16:28:40 GMT -5
our minds are constantly working, how bout that... maybe not dreaming, but working idk anything about dreams... but killing a sleeping guy vs killing an emrbyo is a dumb argument The point is: killing an embryo is just as dumb as killing a sleeping person. How do people justify killing an embryo? It's not aware? Sleeping people/ some mentally retarded people aren't aware, but we don't kill them. Because we don't know them, personally? We don't kill strangers (outside of war context/self defence, anyways). Because they're not fully developped? Babies aren't fully developped, and we don't kill them. Think about how much different a baby looks from an adult. Think about how much different Caucasians look when compared to Asians or Negroes. We can't say something is human or not based on what it looks like, when the biological identity is there. And this is all without the arguement of souls. If you include that, my position can only be strengthened.
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Post by notoriousfro on Nov 15, 2006 16:44:28 GMT -5
they justify killing an embryo because it isn't alive any more than a bacterium.
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Nov 15, 2006 16:46:41 GMT -5
Lol. Now you bring up a new question: the definition of life. Please give me your version.
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Post by Blues on Nov 15, 2006 22:31:57 GMT -5
Anyone read The Giver? It was in my 8th grade reading list I think. This kinda reminds of that.
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Post by :[DS]: Battôsai on Nov 15, 2006 22:43:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I found it kinda scary. What if some society actually ended up like that? It sounds like uber-communism gone wrong. Why does this topic make you think of it?
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